These quotes are spot on and what we see happening now. "A clear demise of our western society. Younger generations no longer crave honor or fame, they are only interested in money, entertainment and other trivial matters.
The empire stops expanding and instead focuses its attention to being defensive, protecting its wealth.However, due to all this intellectual debate going back and forth inside an empire, internal rivalries and strife become more prevalent, weakening the empire, dividing its population.
This also leads to the influx of foreigners into the capital cities, which dilutes a nation’s identity and weakens the overall moral fabric of the empire."
What a fascinating article!!! I knew the general pattern of empires was one we were following rather closely, but the breakdown by Ages shows our reality in terrifying detail. Many of us are sons and daughters of those from our Age of duty and service. Many of us may still hold those values, and some of us may have even imparted that attitude into our children. But clearly, that Age is waning at best, and the amount of passdown may even be small enough that its truly already passed, and we are just the stubborn minority holdouts. Considering that the examples cited had an average shelf life of 238 years, and the US is in the 241-248 range depending on where you choose to mark our beginning, we have reason to fear the future...
You are welcome. You summarized it well. The question becomes: do we simply collapse or do we morph into something grotesque and tyrannical like Rome did?
I honestly hoping for a third, “we broke the model” option… But considering historical precedent and the current state of affairs, Id wager itll be the grotesque and tyrannical, followed by the collapse/civil war/ fracture into separate states path we go down.
"In the case of the United States of America, the pioneering period did not consist of a barbarian conquest of an effete civilisation, but of the conquest of barbarian peoples."
The problem is through the centuries independently minded people had the option to move to another country/empire that wasn't in decline. Methinks that is no longer an option.
Am going to read the whole link, carefully, soon, when I get the time. I promise. But even a quick skim of the enumerated paragraph's titles and lead sentences tell the story quite well. Thanks for posting this. I'll share it with friends, though most of my Navy peers are now deceased. Joined in '65, retired in '91. The corporate memory of what I fashion as our Navy's Golden Era is fad..i...n....g away.
First of all, thanks wholeheartedly for your service to our Nation. Second, thanks for your wisdom and very interesting posts. Third, humbly, please correct the dates in your empire table: the years for the Roman empire, the Arab empire, the Ottoman empire, or Spain are way off. It is a bit confusing. Thanks.
Sir Glubb had a lot of Arab dynasties to include in his chart. Picking a specific exact date per dynasty is difficult. He could have aggregate the main players in the caliphate to make his point.
Regarding Roman Empire, his numbers could be argued correctly depending on which western “Caesar” he is using as a reference. He didn’t include Byzantine in his Roman Empire aggregate for sure. The Roman Empire by 180AD had stopped spreading and colonizing and the focus shifted to maintaining power.
The Spanish Main was irrelevant after the late 1700’s and Glubb may have chose that as his reference, noting that he didn’t say the end of the monarchy, simply the end of empire (although you have a point as the Spanish empire lost Cuba and the Philippines and other overseas possessions after the Spanish American war).
These quotes are spot on and what we see happening now. "A clear demise of our western society. Younger generations no longer crave honor or fame, they are only interested in money, entertainment and other trivial matters.
The empire stops expanding and instead focuses its attention to being defensive, protecting its wealth.However, due to all this intellectual debate going back and forth inside an empire, internal rivalries and strife become more prevalent, weakening the empire, dividing its population.
This also leads to the influx of foreigners into the capital cities, which dilutes a nation’s identity and weakens the overall moral fabric of the empire."
Yep. Immigration without order and assimilation leads to collapse. Always has.
History.
What a fascinating article!!! I knew the general pattern of empires was one we were following rather closely, but the breakdown by Ages shows our reality in terrifying detail. Many of us are sons and daughters of those from our Age of duty and service. Many of us may still hold those values, and some of us may have even imparted that attitude into our children. But clearly, that Age is waning at best, and the amount of passdown may even be small enough that its truly already passed, and we are just the stubborn minority holdouts. Considering that the examples cited had an average shelf life of 238 years, and the US is in the 241-248 range depending on where you choose to mark our beginning, we have reason to fear the future...
Great article, much thanks for sharing it!!!
You are welcome. You summarized it well. The question becomes: do we simply collapse or do we morph into something grotesque and tyrannical like Rome did?
I honestly hoping for a third, “we broke the model” option… But considering historical precedent and the current state of affairs, Id wager itll be the grotesque and tyrannical, followed by the collapse/civil war/ fracture into separate states path we go down.
Page 7 of the link:
"In the case of the United States of America, the pioneering period did not consist of a barbarian conquest of an effete civilisation, but of the conquest of barbarian peoples."
Ye-ow! That'll get Sir Glubb canceled.
Indeed!
The problem is through the centuries independently minded people had the option to move to another country/empire that wasn't in decline. Methinks that is no longer an option.
Great point.
Am going to read the whole link, carefully, soon, when I get the time. I promise. But even a quick skim of the enumerated paragraph's titles and lead sentences tell the story quite well. Thanks for posting this. I'll share it with friends, though most of my Navy peers are now deceased. Joined in '65, retired in '91. The corporate memory of what I fashion as our Navy's Golden Era is fad..i...n....g away.
Your period of service lines up with my father’s, 64-94
It’s a nice treatise on the subject and how the movie ends.
First of all, thanks wholeheartedly for your service to our Nation. Second, thanks for your wisdom and very interesting posts. Third, humbly, please correct the dates in your empire table: the years for the Roman empire, the Arab empire, the Ottoman empire, or Spain are way off. It is a bit confusing. Thanks.
Sir Glubb had a lot of Arab dynasties to include in his chart. Picking a specific exact date per dynasty is difficult. He could have aggregate the main players in the caliphate to make his point.
Regarding Roman Empire, his numbers could be argued correctly depending on which western “Caesar” he is using as a reference. He didn’t include Byzantine in his Roman Empire aggregate for sure. The Roman Empire by 180AD had stopped spreading and colonizing and the focus shifted to maintaining power.
The Spanish Main was irrelevant after the late 1700’s and Glubb may have chose that as his reference, noting that he didn’t say the end of the monarchy, simply the end of empire (although you have a point as the Spanish empire lost Cuba and the Philippines and other overseas possessions after the Spanish American war).
The table isn’t my property. It’s Sir John Glubb that compiled or implemented into his article.
👍🫡